Under the Blue Ring
-
Pulled my Sylphyo out of its case last night just before a gig and grabbed it by the blue ring. Pulled it straight off (yikes!). Put it back on, no problem, but then I took a look at what was underneath:
My concern is the area in the red circle. It appears to be some port or hole that is covered with a membrane or glue that ... maybe ... is sealing this port or hole? It is not completely sealing the port, and I'm wondering if this is allowing moisture into the electronics area of the Sylphyo.
Suggestions as to what I should do would be welcome ...
-- Clint Goss
-
On my Sylphyo this hole was completely sealed. I removed the adhesive out of curiosity and yes that is a duct that goes straight into the electronics case.
It could be a ventilation duct, which was finally closed after all. Or a prepared connection option to a dynamic mouthpiece that should be closed for now.
Aodyo?
Should this channel be tightly sealed (like mine), or a little open (like Clint's), or fully open? -
@Peter-Ostry it is indeed the place for the dynamic mouthpiece connection and should be sealed..
-
Thanks, Laurent, for clarification.
Clint, I think you should remove the old hot glue, let the electronics dry for a while just to be safe, and then seal the opening flat but tight with new hot glue and put on the blue ring.
The reason for this: Air from the main tube does not normally get through this opening to the electronics while the mouthpiece with the O-ring is in place. No air can get through the electronics chamber either. Air can only penetrate through the inner gap between the housing and the blue ring. But if it does, it can then condense on the ring, on the wall of the small duct and on electronic components in the compartment.
If you're drying the Sylphyo with your fan without a mouthpiece, you may have aided the unwanted process, but you couldn't have known there was an opening where there shouldn't be. According to current knowledge, I would not do the drying with a fan from below without a mouthpiece, because the cooler blue metal ring promotes condensation. I think it is better to use a different, dry mouthpiece. Maybe a truncated one with a larger opening, but the plugged-in part with the O-ring should keep the upflowing air away from the cool metal ring.
-
@Peter-Ostry How interesting. Thank you both the the info and the insight.
I am on the road now, so all modifications (like obtaining Hot Glue, which I have never used) are more difficult.
I believe that the O-Ring on my black mounthpiece does not make a perfect seal, since there is a very slight wobble in my mouthpiece when it is fully seated. Not a problem playing, but maybe there is a slight moist air leak back up underneath the blue ring.
I am not sure what the air-path is that you are describing here:
the inner gap between the housing and the blue ring.
... maybe it is outside air? Or is it some breath moisture air?
with your fan without a mouthpiece,
I am not currently using a fan while on the road.
At home, I store my Sylphyo vertically in a 3-D printed stand (https://community.aodyo.com/topic/606/floor-stand/7). I do use a fan to pull air down the Sylphyo. This seems to work well ....
On the road, I am using a cradle (https://community.aodyo.com/topic/606/floor-stand/5) that stores the Sylphyo horizontally, and I am not using a fan. I think this is not a good idea. I have been having more and more issues, which I suspect are related to moisture. Failing to send MIDI when paired with the Link, Unable to initiate a pairing from the Sylphyo, and even failing to send send MIDI over the USB connection.
I am still laying it down horizontally while at gigs, but overnight I am now standing my Sylphyo up on end and leaving it open to dry (and removing the blue ring). This is a bit risky (it is just standing on its bell end) but the behavior of the Sylphyo is improving.
Since I have no experience with Hot Glue, I have many concerns with attempting to seal the active mouthpiece port.
- Will I melt the plastic of the body of the Sylphyo?
- Will I drip glue into the active mouthpiece port and into the Zone of Electronics?
- Will some undreamt-of calamity befall my Syphyo in my fledgling attempts at Hot Glue Art and I'll be left playing a kazoo at gigs.
Maybe there is a tape of some sort that would stick, provide a seal, and be safe?
-- Clint Goss
-
@Clint Flex Tape ? hydrofuge and waterproof
-
Referenced by
Clint
-
@Fanch35 Thanks for the suggestion. Unclear whether Flex Tape bonds to ABS plastic, but I suspect not. (for the material used in the body of the Sylphyo, see https://community.aodyo.com/topic/687/what-type-of-plastic-is-sylphyo-made-of). Flex products in general are heavily promoted to consumers, but don't seem to get high marks for their ability to seal larger than pinhole sized openings.
Searching for the right tape is challenging. Tapes that seem to fit the criteria appear to be difficult to obtain in small quantities (e.g. Bron BT-246). Many consumer tapes are fuzzy on what they will bond to, how removable they are, their water-resistant properties, how stretchy they are, how thick they are, and other important characteristics.
Wondering if @Laurent_AODYO other other knowledgeable folks in this area could make a recommendation for an obtainable (like on Amazon) tape that might work well ...
-- Clint Goss
-
@Clint
Hot glue is a no brainer, easy to apply and remove. It's not really an adhesive, but a thermoplastic mass that holds things together elastically. You can buy a set with the simple "pistol" and a few sticks online for little money anywhere.Let it warm up and try a few times somewhere else, then you can go for the Sylphyo. If it doesn't work right away, just let it cool down and pull away with your fingers. If you put the blue ring on immediately afterwards, it's fixed just like Aodyo did.
You can also seal the opening with some soft kneadable mass that does not dry out or with "liquid rubber seal", but there's nothing wrong with hot glue and you can also use it to fix cables and other things where there isn't much stress.
And no, it will not melt the plastic of your Sylphyo. The melting point is around 100 °C, normal working temperature around 150 °C.
-
@Clint said:
I am not sure what the air-path is that you are describing here:
"the inner gap between the housing and the blue ring."
If you look inside the main tube with the blue ring on, you will see a gap between the ring and the Sylphyo's body. The upper part of the Sylphyo is not airtight and it doesn't have to be, because the mouthpiece seals the main tube when pushed in, making the instrument playable. Only in your case does this seem to be a problem because the small channel to the electronics is not completely closed. Even with the mouthpiece in place, moisture can get in over time, but with the mouthpiece off, moisture will definitely get in there. As Laurent said, the hole to the electronics compartment needs to be sealed.
@Clint said:
Since I have no experience with Hot Glue, I have many concerns with attempting to seal the active mouthpiece port.
Will I melt the plastic of the body of the Sylphyo?
No. The melting point of hot glue is lower than that of the Sylphyo.
@Clint said:
Will I drip glue into the active mouthpiece port and into the Zone of Electronics?
No. Hot glue is too thick for the small hole. It won't go in easily.
@Clint said:
Will some undreamt-of calamity befall my Syphyo in my fledgling attempts at Hot Glue Art and I'll be left playing a kazoo at gigs.
No. And as we know, Kazoos have moisture problems :-)
@Peter-Ostry said:
Let it warm up and try a few times somewhere else, then you can go for the Sylphyo. If it doesn't work right away, just let it cool down and pull away with your fingers. If you put the blue ring on immediately afterwards, it's fixed just like Aodyo did.
That was an awkward description. I meant that you immediately put the blue ring on the hot glue to fix it. Only if the glue application is unsuccessful, you allow the glue to cool briefly and remove it. The glue is softer than the Sylphyo and it doesn't attack the plastic. It's a mechanical bond, not a chemical bond.
I'm sorry if I sound incomprehensible at times. My English is not good enough for technical precision and Google Translate is smart, but from what I can see it cannot be trusted for technical subjects.
@Clint said:
I believe that the O-Ring on my black mouthpiece does not make a perfect seal, since there is a very slight wobble in my mouthpiece when it is fully seated. Not a problem playing, but maybe there is a slight moist air leak back up underneath the blue ring.
Maybe yes. But "slight wobble"? I would say my mouthpiece fits quite well, at least as well as you can expect from a piece of plastic with an O-ring. The conical shape is well done. My spare mouthpiece fits the same way. However, I think two O-rings would be better for the fit.
But your O-ring isn't dry, is it? It shouldn't be. There are silicone-based care products for O-rings and seals in general. I have one of the type used for scuba gear, but there are many. Search for "silicone-based lubrication for O-rings".
-
@Peter-Ostry Thank you so much for all the info!!!
Hot Glue gun is on it's way ... I'll keep y'all posted ...
-
Success!
I used This Kit, practiced a bit, and (I believe) successfully closed the hole. I did this repair after leaving this Sylphyo (my Sylphyo "B") open with the blue ring off for two days to let any moisture dry out before I sealed the hole.
I wanted to avoid dripping hot glue down into the hole, so I positioned the Sylphyo horizontally with the open port on the bottom, hanging off the edge of a table. I did not remove the old glue, as it was already closing a good portion of the hole. The newly applied glue melted the older glue and they seem to form a tight seal.
Here's a pic of my repaired Sylphyo "B":
... and here is my Sylphyo "A", which appears to have a well-sealed active mouthpiece port:
THANKS to @Laurent_AODYO and @Peter-Ostry and @Fanch35 who provided info and support on this issue!!
-- Clint Goss
-
Perfect!
I will send my Sylphyo to you in the future, you do it much nicer than me. -
Wait, what? What is this interesting "dynamic mouthpiece" of which you speak? :)
-
@wwoodard8 I believe it is the Photon mouthpiece. A good overview is in a forum post Here.
I have heard that the project has been delayed by lack of chip availability ...
-
@wwoodard8 Aodyo were working on their own design of active mouthpiece back at the time of the original Indiegogo fund-raising campaign.
It would appear that sadly, insufficient funds were raised to provide for the active mouthpiece to be made available as an option.Here is a note from the Indiegogo campaign updates, from Jun 19, 2015.
"Following some feedback from last Musikmesse, and some request during this campaign, we decided to provide one new expansion port in the Sylphyo to allow future alternate active mouthpieces. Here are the first preliminary preview about how it should work (here with a preliminary sax/clarinette type mouthpiece) to allow extra control on sound from reed pressure:".
It would appear that in the production version of the Sylphyo, a decision was taken to shift the active mouthpiece's connector to the rear, display side? -
As is clear from Clint's pictures of his Sylphyo, the connector for the active mouthpiece is not actually fitted in the production Sylphyos but the moulding is there for it.
-
@Gromit Ah, well, interesting. I would really like a bite controller :)
-
@wwoodard8 said in Under the Blue Ring:
@Gromit Ah, well, interesting. I would really like a bite controller :)
Maybe one day, Rudy at Imoxplus and the rest of the Photon team will be able to get the Photon manufactured. They still cannot source any PSOC microprocessors from Cypress.
According to Rudy,
"The Photon offers you CC's for- Breath out (blow)
- Breath in (suck)
- Tongue position (moving your tongue inwards or outwards)
- Lower Lip tension (pitch bend control with lower lip)
- Upper Lip position (shifting your mouth further or deeper on the mouthpiece)
- Vocal amplitude (making a vocal sound while blowing)
- Each sensor can be configured individually with curves, midi channel, smoothing etc...
- Up to 32 mouthpiece configurations (presets) can be stored in the photon and recalled using program changes
- Hires midi output can be activated for each sensor individually
- Adjustable breath flow (resistance)
- etc.".
The Photon would attach to a Sylphyo in place of the Sylphyo's mouthpiece.
Air blown into the Photon mouthpiece by the musician does not pass through the Sylphyo. It exits straight back out of the Photon again. The Sylphyo just detects the notes that are being played. The Photon's MIDI data and the Sylphyo's MIDI data (the notes fingered (and motion control?)) are merged to drive apps such as Respiro from Imoxplus or SWAM. External MIDI synths too, I believe. -
@Gromit
Yes, the photon mouth is exactly that and therefore no more humidity in the Sylphyo which will solve all Clint's problems!
Strongly the final photon ... -
Slowly, slowly... one strength of the Sylphyo is its very special sensitivity to airflow, which makes it probably the only wind controller that can really sound like a wind instrument. Of course, many of us would like something like the Photon mouthpiece, but it would make the Sylphyo a different instrument because the Sylphyo’s sensor is bypassed and the airflow is measured differently.
For me, it would be fine to be able to use the Sylphyo in two configurations. But I am not sure if I would still like to have these strange touch surfaces of the Sylphyo together with the Photon mouthpiece. I think with the Photon I would like mechanical buttons/flaps better. Special functions like sucking as a separate event are of course great, especially for experimental music.
But even though the Photon mouthpiece promises many features, I would actually prefer to have a better version of the Yamaha WX mouthpiece on the Sylphyo. To let the air flow through and to transmit the position and movement of the reed into the prepared slot to the Sylphyo electronics.
-
@Peter-Ostry said in Under the Blue Ring:
Slowly, slowly... one strength of the Sylphyo is its very special sensitivity to airflow, which makes it probably the only wind controller that can really sound like a wind instrument. Of course, many of us would like something like the Photon mouthpiece, but it would make the Sylphyo a different instrument because the Sylphyo’s sensor is bypassed and the airflow is measured differently.
For me, it would be fine to be able to use the Sylphyo in two configurations. But I am not sure if I would still like to have these strange touch surfaces of the Sylphyo together with the Photon mouthpiece. I think with the Photon I would like mechanical buttons/flaps better. Special functions like sucking as a separate event are of course great, especially for experimental music.
But even though the Photon mouthpiece promises many features, I would actually prefer to have a better version of the Yamaha WX mouthpiece on the Sylphyo. To let the air flow through and to transmit the position and movement of the reed into the prepared slot to the Sylphyo electronics.
Peter, I was lucky to be able to test the photon1 prototype on the Sylphyo and I assure you that it makes you forget the particular sensitivity to the air flow of the Sylphyo. It is an experience that I wish you because the trio Sylphyo/Photon1 + Respiro (Imoxplus) really sounds like a wind instrument and very far in front of the couple Sylphyo + Respiro.
But as experience is not currently possible, Peter, let's continue to assess Sylphyo as it is while waiting for the necessary evolution of this Wind Controller ... -
@reidid789
Ah, I just read in the (planned) specifications that the Photon has adjustable airflow. Mechanically, I hope. If it comes close to the Sylphyo with that, it's impressive with the other features.Then again, I wonder why I would put such a thing on the Sylphyo. We'll see if imoxplus really brings out the Photon and for which instruments there will be adapters. Aodyo has to programme the interface and their priorities seem to be elsewhere at the moment. But let's look hopefully into the future, maybe they are working on it right now and will be ready when imoxplus has the lost chips again :-)
-
@Peter-Ostry It looks like Imoxplus have already designed an adapter for the Sylphyo, for a later version of the Photon prototype. Version 2 (or maybe 3 or later?).
Pedro Eustache shows the Photon v2 on his Sylphyo in the YouTube video, linked below.
Youtube Video – [16:41..]
