Is there any way to know when the Base Key changes?
I have a situation where I have a plugin that needs to know the Base Key setting of my Sylphyo. It also needs to adjust when I change the Base Key (which I do often between songs).
Is there any way to know this via MIDI? I see Program Change messages when I changed the selected Sylphyo sound, but not when I change Base Key.
@Clint What is the plug in? Can you program it to accept a midi message that will tell it the base key. For that kind of thing I use a midi foot controller (softstep), which is programmable, and does not require hands... a worthwhile investment, as it is extremely versatile and multi functional..... *** The sylphyo does send note on/note off messages when changing the base key, but it seems to be a step/note behind. See attached pic. Depends how versatile the programming on the plugin is.... Cheers
@Paul-Flute Thanks Paul ...
I'm working in Cantabile and transposing various MIDI inputs to a set of drones. The transpositions (e.g. to the key switch that turns off a drone), change depending on the Base Key of the Sylphyo. I also keep the drones within the range of a specific 12 pitches, which requires more transpositions depending on the Base Key.
I have programmed my EC4 (a FaderFox MIDI controller with rotary encoders and lots of options) to send a CC to Cantabile whose value is one of the 12 keys. Cantabile is now programmed to install all the correct transpositions.
However, whenever I change the key of the Sylphyo on the back panel, I have to follow up with the corresponding knob-turning on the EC4. This is a pain, and prone to error (which would be a total head-scratcher during performance).
I have seen no info coming out of the Sylphyo whatsoever when I change Base Key ... Not shure where the Note On / Off messages are coming from ... Maybe there's a config option or mode I am missing??
Peter Ostry last edited by
I am afraid you won't have a chance until Aodyo gives us controlling possibilities like setting the base note by sending something to the Link and sync it to the instrument or vice versa or what-do-I-know ...
Just loud thinking:
Do not change the base note on the Sylphyo but rather at the destination. Near the MIDI input, in Cantabile, before the plugin, whatever is possible. It's only about adding a value to incoming note numbers.
I don't know how you operate the EC4, but if pushing knobs doesn't interfer with other functions I would use the push functions of encoders 1-11. They have labels and pressing the corresponding knobs makes manual changes more or less failsave.
If you can send SysEx from Cantabile or through another software, maybe Aodyo can give you a string to set the base note on the current Link. You wouldn't see the change on the Sylphyo but I think you could live with that.
If you can program that in Cantabile or in another software, you could switch the base note on the Sylphyo, then do something on or with the Sylphyo you never do while playing (telling the software that the base note is coming) and then play the base note. Like a keyboard player handles key switches.
None of the above is an ideal solution, but maybe I could give you some ideas.
Just a note:
If you need MIDI processing but don't have a software for that, consider Bome MIDI Translator Pro. They have a very helpful support guy in the user forum. BomeBox could be an additional option but that little monster is expensive.
@Clint The question is, would these note on/off messages my Sylphyo is sending on base note change, help you, if your Sylphyo did the same? Then I would press Laurent for an answer on which setting would allow this. Perhaps my Sylphyo has a problem? Mine also sends a lot of 'General Purpose 7' messages in rapid succession at various times, usually after switching the Sylphyo on. hmmmmm..... I would still recommend adding some kind of foot controller like the softstep, to your arsenal....
Do not change the base note on the Sylphyo but rather at the destination
Great suggestion! But for latency reasons, I've gone down a route that prevents me from modifying the MIDI on the receiving side.
I am routing the Link directly to a VL70-m, and then mixing that dry signal in the RME interface direct monitoring facility directly to the output. This saves me the Round Trip Latency, which makes a noticeable difference in mhy playing.
By the way, the Link has an excellent and reliable MIDI-merge capability, so I can output messages from Cantabile through the Link that get merged with the MIDI stream going to the VL70-m ... an excellent setup.
I would use the push functions of encoders 1-11
Right! That'll work. I can easily allocate another bank just for this purpose ... Good one!!!
a string to set the base note on the current Link
That would be interesting! ... not sure if it exists ... Love to hear from @join or another core member if this is possible.
telling the software that the base note is coming
That's another thing I haven't through of ... Cool ...
I could actually potentially use these thing for the situations where I'm only using software synth ... typically when I do complex layering (as opposed to "just playin sax" when I use the VL70).
Cantabile is really good at generating whatever MIDI is needed and routing it to wherever it is needed ...
Peter ... Thanks for these suggestions ... they are gold (and will send me down an untold number of rabbit holes)!
This type of use is quite specific, and not something we had in mind at the early design stage of the Sylphyo/Link. There is no data sent from the Sylphyo when changing base Key (neither any controller setting as breath setting or other control setting, all you can have on the Link side is the result of these settings).
Actually the Link is just currently replicating the Sylphyo internal Core. Wireless transmission goes from the Sylphyo to the Link and not backward (except for radio internal protocol acknowledgment message). Getting data back to the Sylphyo from the Link would be theoretically possible but this would also use radio bandwidth, make the radio protocol more complex and thus increase latency for realtime playing messages.
Changing anything on the Link without providing back information to the Sylphyo would probably not be so comfortable as you would have no feedback about the Link setup compared to the Sylphyo setup. So the most consistent way to make things work was to have the Link replicating the Sylphyo setup and status.
When the Sylphyo Core transmission code was written we had to optimize the data transmitted to get the best latency and radio range possible.
Program change message were added later. Base key was not an obvious MIDI message to be transmitted (and we would still have to figure out how to package the information in the MIDI flow).
Best latency optimized result should be possible when using wired MIDI rather than wireless to manipulate MIDI data.
Thanks for this use case description though as this could help us to think about a solution at some point.
@Paul-Flute did you setup any control to send "'General Purpose 7" MIDI CC in your Sylphyo ?
@Laurent_AODYO This is very helpful info!! This kind of insight gives an idea of what is possible and what the design parameters and motivations are given priority.
For myself, latency is a big one, so features that materially compromises latency I think should be off the table.
@Paul-Flute said in Is there any way to know when the Base Key changes?:
note on/off messages my Sylphyo is sending on base note change, help you
I thought that you might be connection by direct USB wire, so I just tried that configuration. I am not seeing any messages, wireless or wired, immediate or delayed, when I change Base Key ...
I am on firmware v1.4.9b5 ...
@Clint there is no MIDI message transmitted when changing base Key ...
@Laurent_AODYO Hi Laurent. No, I did not setup any control to send "general Purpose 7 ' I have just checked all my controls. My Sylphyo is definitely sending note on/off messages when I change the base key in 'Quick Settings' menu. Please see my Midi Monitor screen shot. ... I was not playing a chromatic scale, I was changing base note, taking care not to touch any other keys.... Does my Sylphyo have a problem? This is what happens when I turn on my Sylphyo , taking care not to touch any keys....
@Paul-Flute do you have similar message on the USB MIDI of the Sylphyo ?
@Laurent_AODYO Yes, If I connect the usb on the Sylphyo directly to my mac, I get a similar slew of midi messages when I turn on the Sylphyo. I also get the same note on/off messages when I change the base key using the Quick Settings menu. If you remember I sent my Sylphyo back to Aodyo about 1 year ago, because of the strange problems of it generating weird noises. You could not find a problem...and apparently applied a waterproof coating inside and returned it to me.... Perhaps it still has a problem??? Cheers
@Paul-Flute strange behavior you have there.
Could you please make a Midi Monitor capture, with Decimal number instead of Standard Name (MIDI Monitor Preferences) so that I could understand what these message are.
Maybe you should perform a factory reset which could fix a bad setting (please note down any specific adjustment you made in the setting prior to do this).
Could you also remind me which firmware version you are using with your Sylphyo ?
@Laurent_AODYO I will do a reset tomorrow. Meanwhile here are the midi monitor screen shots. V.1.4.8 ** Thanks .
@Paul-Flute Ok so General Purpose 7 is indeed CC82 (52 in hex).
No idea why the Sylphyo would send such message with default setup
Default setup only use Pitch Bend/Wheel message plus this:
@Laurent_AODYO That was just from turning on the Sylphyo, taking care not to touch any keys or slider... ???
@Paul-Flute I did a reset, and that solved the problem of extraneous midi messages. However, initially the note on/off messages stopped when changing Base Key, but now trying it again, it is happening? Thanks
Peter Ostry last edited by
My Sylphyo does not send anything when switched on. Not a single event. Not via the link, nor directly via USB. The first messages I see are Elevation CCs when I take the instrument out of the vertical power on position.