@Peter-Ostry Thanks Peter ... excellent perspective.
Since I'm using the hydrophilic inserts in the Sylphyo mouthpieces, there is significantly less moisture internally. I don't recall ever getting the "dripping out the bottom" syndrome since I started using them.
@Peter-Ostry said in Sylphyo v1.6.0 update:
do not cover the small rectangular slot.
Why?
I specifically cover that hole to prevent moisture from entering ... Even bought a glue gun and learned how to apply hot glue for just this purpose ... There are messages in this forum discussing this issue.
@join I've installed 1.6.0 on one Sylphyo-Link pair, and it checks out AOK from all the perspective I can think of ...
The New sounds are appreciated. I've always used the Link's internal sounds as backups to the VL70, CraftSynth, and Tooro, but I'm now using them more and more. Kalinka was a wonderful addition, and the I'm sure the new sounds will be put to use. The Cylysax and Melodyion are noticeably more quiet, but now that I'm using a mixer with MIDI control I can set the gain on the Link immediately with a song change without having to "fiddle" with knobs. (I've moved from a laptop-based setup to a Push3S + hardware setup, so all sounds are now "hardware" generated - a big improvement in reliability and latency and workability).
Of course, I am sad to hear about the financial situation, and hope that (no, make that "Know that") everyone in the company will land on their feet. You all have produced the most fantastic wind controller that I could have imagined, and it has greatly enriched my musical universe.
I'm guessing this forum will continue to live (for a while, at least) and I hope that there will be postings about possibilities for maintenance of our instruments down the road ...
@Peter-Ostry It is shrink-wrap tubing that holds the labels in place, so they don't peel off during handling or in the shipping cases. I use a Brother PTD600VP label maker and have a whole range of label sizes and colors. Some labels I place on the face of units stay firm, but the ones wrapped on cables tend to fall off. The 3:1 (shrink ratio) clear shrink wrap tubing keeps them nicely in place (although they are a bit thick). Clear tape on the cables never seemed to work well and the adhesive tends to get messy.
Here are some shots from Tuesday evening's concert setup (which went smashingly well):
@Peter-Ostry Well, that 90 minutes included half a dozen interruptions from folks arriving for our workshop. I've found it to be a bit of an art to do setup of a complex rig while graciously chatting with folks just long enough so that they don't feel "dissed" but also giving them the idea that you're "in the midst" and the trot off with a "well I see you're up to your eyeballs so I'll let you get to it".
Even when it is just a plain gig (i.e. not associated with a workshop), I often have curious techno-aspiring musicians asking about this and that. I sometimes engage them with some "the elbow's connected to the wrist bone, and the wrist bone's connected to the ..." type talk. Their eyes glaze over pretty quick ...
One big help is to label both ends of (pretty much) every cable. I use a label maker and have lots of colors (red=right audio, blue=left audio, orange=DC power, black=MIDI, green=stereo unbalanced, ...) and cover most of those labels with clear heat shrink-wrap. Then most of the hookup is minor ... when it says "VL70 Left Out" at one end and "MX122 Ch3 Left In" at the other, setup becomes mostly mindless.
Thanks for the assistance, Peter!!
And here's my setup for tomorrow night's concert ... 90 minutes total setup out of our shipping cases ...
This is, of course, the "old" daisy-chain rig setup.
@Peter-Ostry Amazing ... outstanding ... and why can't I click a "17 stars" button?
I have made heavy use of Bome MIDI Translator (BMT) when I was laptop-based, so I don't anticipate issues programming the BomeBox in this new setup.
You did answer one pending question - to get a monster interface such as an iConnectivity mioXL (19" rack unit) or a much leaner USB hub plus smaller MIDI interface. The VL70 is primary for me, so I do need to be aware of any additional latency ... but I think your proposed setup wins out (after taking stock of how many of my units talk MIDI over USB vs the few units that only speak DIN or TRS MIDI).
Thanks SO MUCH!
@Peter-Ostry Extremely helpful! Thanks so much. I have a lot to consider ...
One of my main considerations is that this is a road (or "road-able") rig. In fact, we start a weeklong workshop this evening, and have a concerts Tues and Thursday evenings. The less costly and less delicate gear is shipped directly to the venue, and I carry the delicate stuff (Sylphyo, Push 3S, and physical flutes) in carry-on.
So ... the simplicity and convenience of sending the Push 3 USB to the Link and using it as a merge (and also for the Push 3 to power the Link) seemed to work really well.
I do have a hookup diagram for my current (daisy-chained) rig, but not yet for the newly envisioned Bome Box / star configuration rig. Here's the current rig (including my home recording setup and my home-based sound system):
I'm wondering if there is a way to control the channels that the Synth in the Link responds to.
I've changed over the last year from laptop-based to more hardware-based, using a Push 3S to do my background in solo shows with the Sylphyo controlling a flock of live synths (VL70, CraftSynth2, Tooro, etc). Works great.
One issue is that, in my current MIDI daisy-chain setup, all the live synths get all the SysEx sent by the Push3S, I will be adding a Bome Box and moving to a MIDI star configuration rather than a daisy-chain. SysEx generation will be done by the Bome Box rather than the Push3 - the Push3 will only send a Note on or PC on an appropriate channel to trigger the Bome Box to send the appropriate SysEx.
However, the MIDI path is Push3S => Link => Bome Box => mioXL MIDI interface which will split out to all my synths. The Bome Box will only send to the appropriate synth, but the Link is before the Bome Box in the MIDI chain ... so ... I think it will still be responding to all channels of Push3 output.
What I would like is for the Link to forward everything coming in on the USB-Mini-B port to the DIN5 Out port, but not have its own Synth be affected by Notes sent by the Push3.
Is there any way to control this?
Wow ... that's a really spectacular aberration! I was carefully listening for something subtle ... and then ... Blaaaaahhhhhhh!
I have never experienced this, and I do use the internal sounds quite a bit, including the Trumpet ...
@Peter-Ostry I suspect that Sylphyo B has had some damage to it's electronics from past moisture exposure ...
To try to get a handle on this issue, I let this Sylphyo "B" sit unused for roughly 6 months, vertical, open, and charged. (I have two other Sylphyo units, so this is not an issue).
I then used it for a recording project, and it worked AOK for roughly 4 hours of playing over two days. It was stored overnight vertically, open, and charging.
On the third day, Sylphyo B began exhibiting the same symptoms described previously: failing to transmit to the Link (while remaining paired), and refusing to respond to the Menu command to re-pair.
My belief is that this is a moisture-related issues. Even though I dry it after playing with a swab and store it vertically and open.
By the way, the port under the blue ring at the top has been sealed, as with my other Sylphyos.
Thanks for the update @Laurent_AODYO ...
Taking a closer look at SuperBooth and ... well ... it looks pretty daunting. I'm from the U.S. and it's an 8 hour red-eye each way. Tickets are shown as "Unavailable" on their site (and also no workshop postings).
Then ... accommodations are far away: 50 minute train ride + 10 min walk + 20 minute walk. That's a total of 3 hours of commuting each day.
Then there's the restrictions: can't bring gear (really??), can't buy anything, and "better bring cash".
And now ... No Aodyo ...
Not sure if I'm missing something ...
Is there a better way to do SuperBooth??
Wondering if the Aodyo folks will be at SuperBooth 2024?
Thinking of making the trip (which is a bit of a haul, coming from Connecticut) ...
@zzrichie I do not own any of the "specialized" Sylphyo's ... but I was inquiring a while ago (maybe 18 months ago) and I recall that one of the Sylphyo folks kindly advised me that the finger pads on versions with treated or painted finger pads do operate "differently" than the regular Sylphyo ... Hope this helps ...
Just checked the firmware download page and the Sylphyo firmware seems to be the latest, based on the file size (which changed from the original 1.5.0 to the update with this fingering restored).
The size of the firmware with this update shows in Windows Explorer as 14,965 KB.
@edwardkort Not sure if they updated the firmware version on the Aodyo web site ... the version number has not changed from 1.5.0, so it's hard to tell ...
This issue with v1.5.0 has been cleared up.
Received a firmware update (in three hours!!) and it addresses this issue completely ...
@join I've just realized that the 1.5.0 Sylphyo firmware no longer has this additional fingering - <xxo|xxo for the two Native Flute fingerings. It did appear in the 1.4.9b5 firmware, but is not in the latest firmware.
Would it be possible to get an update to the 1.5.0 firmware with this fingering restored? I use this fingering all the time in a few songs (being done at a gig this weekend) and could really use it.
This affects the Native Flute (Basic) and Native Flute+ (Extended) fingerings. The YML is available at: https://Goss.com/yml/naf.sylphyomap.yml
Done and dusted!
Tobi from Ableton Drummer (https://abletondrummer.com/) whipped up a Max4Live device that does the job precisely. It has a configurable delay window, which I set to around 12 msec. This gives me good results with the Sylphyo Breath Rate configuration set at Low (125 Hz).
The device is not public yet, but if you contact Tobi, he will probably start offering it for sale shortly ...
I need to (don’t laugh) play percussion on my Sylphyo (you’re laughing … I can hear you). Starting with a simple “four on the floor”, but it might get more complex.
I always configure my Sylphyo for a fixed Velocity (usually 1) to avoid the latency caused by [Dynamic]. This works because Velocity is ignored by all the wind-synth aware HW and SW I have.
Since I can't reconfigure the Sylphyo on the fly, I'm looking for some plugin that might perform the conversion (with an appropriate delay) and produce a MIDI Note On with velocity based on the CC #2 that it sees in a short interval after the note.
Anyone have any ideas in this area?? Any thoughts appreciated ...
@ark I might look at some of the hardware filters such as Midi Solutions Event Processor (or Event Processor Plus). Short of sending all MIDI through a Computer/DAW setup, where you would have extensive MIDI manipulation capabilities, these hardware boxes can work well and with very low latency ...
I have been doing some testing today with the tubular version of the hydrophilic plastic that is shown in the video ... and it does not seem to absorb as much as the simple flat piece of the same material.
I think there is less surface area on the inside of the tube than the two-sided flat surfaces of the rectangular version.
Just posted a video on hydrophilic inserts for the Sylphyo.
This video is an excerpt from a longer video on moisture relating to Native American flutes that will be published in a few months.
Source for porous hydrophilic plastic:
Scientific Commodities – SciComInc.com
Sheets: 10 micron, 1/4" thick sheet – Cat #BB2062-10BL
Tubes: ¾” OD x ½” ID Cat #BB2062-5075A1L
Some interesting articles related to this issue / question ... looks like it is a real issue!
@Peter-Ostry Good question!
I was thinking it was not an issue since the Line outs are unbalanced ... but the 48v circuit is established between XLR pins 1 (which maps to the sleeve) and both pins 2 and 3 (tip and ring) ... so if you go to unbalanced (and drop the ring / pin 3) there will still be a voltage drop across the Tip and Sleeve ...
@ark said in Why can’t Note-off Delay be Zero?:
should be treated as a bug
Thanks @ark! I know understand the legato protocol better ... but I'd really hate to add a physical box to my rig and introduce latency just for this bug ...
Not sure if a bug fix at that low level is a possibility these day ... been quite a while since the last official firmware update ...
@Sylphoboe ... "enriching the original sound bank" (that's what Google Translate produced) would require a firmware update to the Sylphyo. The Sylphyo firmware has been stable for almost two years - no official updates - although there may be Beta versions (issued somewhat privately) for testing new features.
The most recent official firmware release - v1.4.8 - was dated 30Mar2021.
I have been working for several weeks now with some samples of a porous, hydrophilic material sent to me by flutemaker Edward Kort. They are custom cut from a 1/4" thick sheet with 10 micron pores supplied by Scientific Commodities (Cat #BB2062-10BL) that can be found on this page: https://scicominc.com/porous-plastics/porous-sheets/. Photos are shown in the earlier message in this thread.
My experience so far has be very positive. The material is easy to insert and remove from the standard Sylphyo mouthpiece. It does not cause a noticeable change in playing characteristics. The insert absorbs a substantial amount of moisture holds it, and dries out when removed (I typically dry it overnight).
The inside of my Sylphyo has gone from “large moisture droplets on the inside walls of the Sylphyo which coalesce and drip out the bottom” without the hydrophilic inserts to “light dew / haze on the inside walls” with the insert.
I am still on the road so can’t do a more detailed study (like weighing the insert before-and-after to determine the amount of moisture absorbed).
One concern is how oil (e.g. from handling the insert with fingers) might affect the long-term performance of the insert. There is apparently no remedy for hydrophilic material that gets clogged with oil. I am hoping that with reasonably careful handling (by the edges and just the area at the distal end of the insert), an insert might last a year or more. Edward Kort’s philosophy is (personal email) “make a pile and replace as necessary. It’s easy to check the condition of an insert: hold it to your lips and blow. If you can’t move any air, trash the insert.”
I was also concerned about possible shedding of fibers. Edward Kort’s feeling is that “I’ve never seen any fiber shedding; this would be a very bad characteristic in an industrial filter material. That said, the cut edges are feathery – probably due to the nature of the pore structure. With my NAF application (with the insert in the bird), I want the flue-exit end to be very smooth. I accomplish this by masking the surface of the plastic and apply CA glue just to the end. This end can then be smoothed and shaped. Works great, but it is an effort to implement. For the Sylphyo application, I don’t see any reason to seal the ends.”
He has also tried several variations:
I use two formulations of the plastic: the 10-micron pore style that I sent you, and a 30 micron pore size. The 30-micron product is much harder than the 10. It is not spongy at all and seems a bit more durable. However, it must be sawed rather than cut, and it contracts a bit when wet. This requires me to glue the insert into the bird channel, whereas the 10-micron product can just be press fit.
When I get back home (4 months on the road so far – great experience and somewhat exhausting. Just did a concert last night …) I hope to delve more into these inserts …
@mathiross It would be great to get a few photos of your setup ...
The lowest setting for [MIDI Mapping] => [Note-off delay] is 1ms. Wondering if there is a reason why it can’t be zero.
I'm running into an issue in legato situations where I change fingerings on the Sylphyo, but the "from" note and the "to" note are the same. This happens for me in situations where I am doing note translation – as for my harmonizer. The MIDI looks like this:
… with the [Note Off] occurring after the [Note On]. This causes many of my virtual instruments – the Turbo VL70, SWAM engines, etc. – to go silent indefinitely (i.e. until I change to another note that is not G4).
If [Note-off delay] could be 0ms, then the [Note Off] might occur before the [Note On]. Maybe?
I see no way to fix it at my end, other than a ReaJS script or some other gnarly solution that would probably introduce latency.
Any thoughts welcome!
See This Post for a case that I use on the road.
It has performed well!
I have been contacted by a very experienced flute maker and Sylphyo owner - Edward Kort - who has been following this discussion (but cannot respond here because he has yet to be able to get his forum membership approved).
He has successfully experimented with using a porous, hydrophilic (water-loving) insert into the standard Sylphyo mouthpiece. The material is a specialized polyethylene, treated with a surfactant to absorb moisture up to about 40% of its volume.
He reports good results - reducing his usual time-to-first-drip out of the bottom of the Sylphyo from "a few minutes" to "nary a drop after 30 minutes".
He is sending me a sample (arriving in a week) for testing.
Here are some images he sent me:
He sourced the material from Scientific Commodities. The particular material he is sending me is from a 10 micron, 1/4" thick sheet (Cat #BB2062-10BL) that can be found on this page:
https://scicominc.com/porous-plastics/porous-sheets/
... however, for our purposes, I am looking at the possibility of using their porous tubes ... something like Cat #BB2062-5075A1L from this page:
Just some rather substantial confusion with my rig setup (Sylphyo wind controller and SWAM flutes under Cantabile on a PC). Hoping this might shortcut the same issues for others ...
The symptom was that Main Volume in the SWAM instruments appeared to be corrupted, getting snapped down to -26.2 dB. This really messed up the balance in my set list from one instrument to another.
With assistance from Emanuele Parravicini at Audio Modeling, I was able to diagnose the cause:
The Sylphyo has a "Quick Set" for volume that I was not aware of (even after 2 years of playing it as my primary instrument). There is a little-known combination of keys (hold the Aodyo key and tap the pitch-bend slider) and you can adjust the internal volume of the instrument. This was not important to me, since I only use the internal sounds (and volume) of the Sylphyo as a disaster-fallback.
It is quite easy to accidentally hit this Quick Set combination when setting other things such as the Base Key or the MIDI channel.
Changing the Volume on the Sylphyo sends CC07, and the SWAM VSTs respond to that, setting Main Volume.
An accidental setting of 40% volume on the Sylphyo corresponds to a Master Volume of exactly -26.2 dB on the SWAM plugins.
Hope this helps!
@Peter-Ostry Great springboard ideas!
Some Native American flutes have such contrivances.
Basically I'm thinking of making a pocket / reservoir inside the mouthpiece at the gravitational bottom of the mouthpiece (in normal playing position) to catch condensate for later occasional clearing by removing the mouthpiece (every 30 minutes?)
Playing a lot these days (and nights) and want to avoid moisture issues ... with a Blues band the other night ...
Wondering if anyone has experimented with or thought about a modification to the Sylphyo Mouthpiece to reduce moisture into the instrument.
I'm thinking of maybe an inserted component into the South end of the current mouthpiece (the large opening) that would catch and store condensation until it can be cleared.
I'm handy with a 3D printer, but most 3D filament material is not suitable for mouth contact (the microscopic pits in the surface make for bacteria condominiums).
@Peter-Ostry Yes, Linseed takes a looooong time to dry.
Perfect! Found the bit in the garage of the place we are renting ... 1/2 a turn did the trick ...
Thanks so much!!
The casing on the bottom half of my Sylphyo "A" is a bit loose. It creaks a bit when I squeeze it.
You can see it in this short video I took:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mogb12p9zhakjzg/P1230429.MP4?dl=0
Can I stop this by tightening the bolt on the underside of the Sylphyo near the bell? This one ...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/80lo6eg2h8gokur/P1230430.JPG?dl=0
If so ... what kind of a bolt is it? And can I buy it??
@Peter-Ostry Sweet! Looking forward to feedback on how this pans out ...
Love to hear input from @Laurent_AODYO or other Aodyo folks on this low-moisture direction ...
I've been playing out a lot lately and really pushing a lot of moisture through the instrument. I probably swab out 5 times a day. My Sylphyo "A" is still holding up with no ill effects. Sylphyo "B" still does not pair with the Link and may need to be looked at ...
Simple solution: filter out CC#2 = 0.
Bingo!
I do it in Cantabile (excellent live performance DAW) with a filter that only passes CC#2 if >=1 on the route to the Duduk VST. I'm guessing most DAWs should be able to filter MIDI in this way.
Using Super Duduk for our walk-on opening to the next concert ... (with piano and percussion) ... really needed to solve this because I would articulate notes and nothing would happen ...
Gino (of Suonopuro) has suggested changing "by dyn. c." to "by keys" on the interface of the Duduk VST. However, this did not help ... since the problem is with the note's attack (not legato).
What does help is changing the Sylphyo "Note Off Delay" to 10ms rather than 1ms. I'm not sure if that means there is an additional 10ms latency on everything I play (yikes!)
Unfortunately, I cannot send Sysex to the Sylphyo to change configuration (i.e. between songs) - it has to be done by hand on the back panel, so this is a hassle during a performance.
Does anyone know the overall effect of "Note Off Delay" ... does it introduce latency across the board??
I have encountered an issue playing the Suonopuro Duduk (Gino Chimenti) with the Sylphyo. The symptom is that soft attacks on notes produced no sound, regardless of how much breath pressure I supplied after the soft attack.
Here is the MIDI from a normal attack:
… which produces sound as expected from the Suonopuro Duduk VST. However, the following MIDI generated from a soft attack produces no sound:
The issue appears to be the 0 value for CC#2 after the Note On message.
I tracked the problem down to a setting on the Sylphyo: [MIDI Mapping] => [Note-off delay].
My initial testing (which cause the problem) was with [Note-off delay] set to 10ms. Changing that value to 1 ms dramatically changes the MIDI stream on soft attacks:
Here is background information on the [Note-off delay setting], from the Owner’s Manual, 10Jan2022:
“Set the time before a note-off MIDI message is sent. Increasing the delay will help the Sylphyo send no more MIDI note messages than is necessary, but might prevent the MIDI flow from accurately describing dead notes and flutter-tongues. Decreasing the delay will help polyphonic synthesizers better understand the MIDI flow from the Sylphyo.”
… and from the release notes for firmware v1.4.0 (6Mar2019):
“Improved the handling of MIDI note-on and note-off messages. You can now control the delay before a note-off message occurs using the Note-off delay setting in the MIDI Mappings section of the settings menu.”
I am wondering if other folks have encountered issues such as this with other soft synths ... or if there are any thoughts on the Note-of delay setting ...
@wwoodard8 I believe it is the Photon mouthpiece. A good overview is in a forum post Here.
I have heard that the project has been delayed by lack of chip availability ...
@Peter-Ostry I have seen Shakuhachi players keep their instruments in a Lexan box with an open glass of water inside that keeps that humidity at around 50% (I was told), which apparently good for that bamboo-based instrument. Maybe something like that?
Success!
I used This Kit, practiced a bit, and (I believe) successfully closed the hole. I did this repair after leaving this Sylphyo (my Sylphyo "B") open with the blue ring off for two days to let any moisture dry out before I sealed the hole.
I wanted to avoid dripping hot glue down into the hole, so I positioned the Sylphyo horizontally with the open port on the bottom, hanging off the edge of a table. I did not remove the old glue, as it was already closing a good portion of the hole. The newly applied glue melted the older glue and they seem to form a tight seal.
Here's a pic of my repaired Sylphyo "B":
... and here is my Sylphyo "A", which appears to have a well-sealed active mouthpiece port:
THANKS to @Laurent_AODYO and @Peter-Ostry and @Fanch35 who provided info and support on this issue!!
I print headjoints for my Breath Flute project in different colors and materials (PLA vs TPC/Copolyester), so I need to store them for a long time.
I keep each roll of filament in a separate, re-sealable (Zip-lock) poly bag with it's own renewable dehumidifier and a small individual hygrometer. These bagged filament rolls are grouped into clear 44-quart storage boxes.
More info on the individual components:
Poly Bags: I generally use 4 mil "poly" bags from Plymor or Uline. They are made of LPDE and Polyethylene, respectively. The 4 mil thickness feel reassuringly solid. The Plymor bags are on their store on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/12B315CE-97CA-472B-9026-DB8732D7F438 . Uline bags can be found at: https://www.uline.com/BL_211/Uline-4-Mil-Reclosable-Bags
Dehumidifier: I use Eva-Dry E-333 dehumidifiers. They convenient, have an indicator as to remaining capacity, and can be renewed by plugging them in for 18 hours (no more than that!). They bring the relative humidity down to 10-15%. The manufacturer's page is at https://www.eva-dry.com/product/e-333-renewable-dehumidifier/. They are available on Amazon at a discount.
Hygrometer: I use inexpensive EEEKit 56 mini hygrometers. They are no longer available, but an Amazon search for "EEEKit 56" produces lots of similar units.
Storage box: IRIS USA WSB-SD Ziploc WeatherShield 44 Quart Storage Box, Clear. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C882DVV/
So, possibly a similar setup using poly bags, or maybe a clear Lexan box of some sort ...
I do use a dedicated filament storage box / dispenser for filament that is being fed live into the printer. That specific box is by Polymaker and is here: https://www.amazon.com/Polymaker-PolyBox-Filament-Filaments-Printing/dp/B075DBPY6F. However, for other ideas, search on Amazon for "3D Printer Filament Storage Box".
