Octave issues
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Hi,
I have found that when I am in 5+2 octave mode, when I move my thumb from the top octave key to the middle key of the set of three the Sylphyo jumps an octave when my thumb is sliding between the two octave keys.
Also when in 5 octave mode, if I slide my thumb slowly from the top octave key down to the middle octave key, the octave doesn't change (unless I remove my thumb completely and then put it on the key again), but if I slide quickly the octave changes. This doesn't occur when switching between any other pair of octaves.
Is this expected behavior or do I have a hardware problem? It makes it difficult to change upper octaves smoothly and reliably so any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
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For the record, increasing the key reaction time to 40ms seems to reduce the issue although it means the key transitions aren't as fast as I would like...perhaps more practice will resolve the issue :)
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@badblocks Hello! As I wrote in my email to you, I've been testing this on ewi fingering mode for a few hours and have not been able to replicate this issue. Maybe a bit more practice would solve it?
Otherwise, let me know if the issue persists and we can see some other solutions. Could you tell me what software version you are on and what settings your Sylphyo is set to ? It would be easier if you tried it on the default settings (you can reset the Sylphyo in the menu) so that we can be sure to test in the same conditions.Best,
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I can agree to what badblocks says. My base key is C3, playing Chalmuneau. Sometimes when in C4 and switching back to C3, C3 is C5 and the Sylphyo "quiekt". I shake the Sylphyo an then it jumps back to the right octave. Sometimes it's really annoying. It happens "almost ever", when you play fast.
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Interesting! I am seeing a similar issue.
When trying to slur repeatedly over a register break I sometimes get a spurious stuck note. To unstick it I have to lift the thumb completerly and replace it.
I have returned my unit and will be getting a replacement in a few days. I will report back then.
Audyo says they could could not find anything wrong with my unit. I have sent them a video illustrating the issue, but so far they seem not to be inclined to look at it. It's on Dropbox, and I will happily give an invite to anyone who wants to view it. You may send me your email to ijfritz@comcast.net.
Ian
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@ijfritz Hi Ian, to be clear, we looked at your video and tried to replicate the issue according to the video but could not seem to do this. To be safe, we decided to send you a replacement unit.
Thank you,
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Thank you. (The last communication from Aodyo said you had not looked at the video before testing.)
Very odd you could not reproduce the effect, because it happens so much the instrument is almost unplayable. As I mentioned before I spent many hours trying different settings I thought might have an effect, starting from the factory defaults.
Perhaps it is an intermittent effect. The replacement unit should settle that possibility.
Thank you,
Ian
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@ijfritz My apologies for that, I think there was a bit of a communication error. We had looked at the video but were subsequently unable to open it. We've since managed to open it again and are having another look into the issue.
Thank you,
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Hello all --
I have received my replacement Sylphyo and observe the same behavior as on my original unit. Here are some more specific details on how to see it:
1.) Play the highest b (thumb on upper octave + top finger L1.)
2.) Notice the pitch produced when the thumb is lifted. This is the note that can stick on, when changing octaves.
3.) Slide your thumb -- with light pressure -- back and forth between the upper octave pads.
4.) You will sometimes hear the spurious note as an extra "in-between" note. This is not unusual or surprising.
5.) But once in a while the spurious note stays stuck on, even as your thumb slides fully onto the lower octave pad.
6.) To restore normal behavior you must lift up your thumb fully then place it back down.
This seems to be exactly the same issue that badblock noted in his original post. True, more practice on technique and/or a longer de-glitching time could avoid the problem. But this is not how to fix a firmware bug.
Ian
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@ijfritz I'm sorry to hear that - does this only happen in 5+2 octave mode?
That's been my experience, so I assume what's happening is the instrument interprets the dead space between octave pads as the same as moving your thumb off the top octave pad in an upwards direction to hit the top octave.
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I had a similar issue discussed below. The latest software update and the suggestions seem to have fixed it, but I haven't played much since then due to some health problems that I'm now recovered from. Hopefully will be playing more now. See if what you see now is what I describe in this link:
https://community.aodyo.com/topic/506/octave-gets-stuck-fixed-with-software-update -
Just to verify something @ijfritz @Rick-Novy @badblocks does this issue still occur when you go for the 5 octave or 3 octave mode instead of 5+2 or 3+2?
Let me know
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@Support_AODYO only in 5+2 mode for me.
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I have tried rather persistently to make this happen, and I have not been able to. My firmware is v1.4.8b4, so that may be a difference.
I experimented using 5+2 mode both with a fingering that defines pitches for the thumb pad open (the new "Native American Flute+" fingering) as well a one which has "don't care" for the thumb pad (Recorder). Both resulted in the same ... I could not get any notes to stick.
I was working with only the top pad on the front side of the six main pads closed. That is the failure mode, correct?
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@Support_AODYO
All four modes the same.Ian
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@Clint
Thanks for looking at this! The issue is not limited to the specific example I gave.Ian
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I upgraded to the beta firmware and did a factory reset - the issue is improved but still present (when in 5+2 octave mode and moving from the top octave pad down to the second pad from the top, when my thumb is between the two pads there is a momentary octave jump as if I moved my thumb up and off the top pad).
Support has suggested trying a replacement, but I'm traveling for work and won't be in a position to handle the shipping for several months. Will keep practicing and hope I can learn to work around it until then unless someone can offer me advice for troubleshooting and field repair :)
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It could arise if you use a light touch and move slowly on the octave keys, but it depends on the player and some Sylphyo are more forgiving than others. Generally it's recommended to push your thumb a bit more and move a bit faster, which effectively could require a bit of training. With the Sylphyo I have on hand, the issue (spurious note stuck) is apparent with an exaggeratedly slow thumb movement when I set the 5+2 mode, or better, a fingering where the thumb can change the note, like Recorder. Maxence can't reproduce the issue on his Sylphyo. @ijfritz If you don't mind, may I send you an email to discuss your issues in more detail and figure out something to mitigate it?
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You might want to try the following beta version:
- for Windows: https://downloads.aodyo.com/sylphyo/beta/sylphyo-windows-1.4.8b10.exe
- for Mac: https://downloads.aodyo.com/sylphyo/beta/sylphyo-osx-1.4.8b10.zip
I added a "More sensitive" option in the Keys section of the settings menu. Once enabled, the octave keys should respond a bit differently, in such a way that it's pretty impossible to reproduce the issue observed in this thread with my Sylphyo.
You'll also find a parameter called "R.time octaves" that allows you to increase the reaction time when passing from an octave to another, which should help masking the undesired passing notes, for instance when switching from the high C to the low D of the next octave with the Sax fingering.Let me know how it works for you.
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Jonathan —
Thanks for your input and your time.
I’d just about come to the same conclusion about touch and speed. Additionally, dry, hard skin seems to be a problem. Mr. Steiner says the best solution is to rub in pure glycerin rather than ordinary hand lotion, so I’ll try that, too.
I’ll install the new firmware later today. When developing my own custom controller, I found having a longer dead time when an octave key is involved makes a huge difference in playability.
Of course you may email me!
Ian
@join said in Octave issues:
It could arise if you use a light touch and move slowly on the octave keys, but it depends on the player and some Sylphyo are more forgiving than others. Generally it's recommended to push your thumb a bit more and move a bit faster, which effectively could require a bit of training. With the Sylphyo I have on hand, the issue (spurious note stuck) is apparent with an exaggeratedly slow thumb movement when I set the 5+2 mode, or better, a fingering where the thumb can change the note, like Recorder. Maxence can't reproduce the issue on his Sylphyo. @ijfritz If you don't mind, may I send you an email to discuss your issues in more detail and figure out something to mitigate it?
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@join
Well, I’ve tried the new firmware, and indeed it is a huge improvment. Any way I slide my thumb the octaves snap cleanly into place. Great job!That being said, I still occassionally get the stuck notes in an actual playing situation. This means my thumb must must be coming off the pads. Clearly I need more practice. I’m used to having mechanical switches, which are very forgiving.
Still, I don’t see why your code allows a discrepancy between fingering and note output (except momentarily, of course). My code always checks and waits multiples of the reaction time until there is agreement.
Ian
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@support_aodyo Sorry for the long wait. Yes, it still occurs with 5 octave mode. I have not tried the other modes. Franky I have never been able to figure out how to work the 5+2, or at least what the manual describes doesn't seem to work for me. I don't see any difference between the 5+5 and 5 octave modes.
I am still experiencing this problem with the update that dropped within the past couple of weeks. I have always used the internal sounds and have not tried it as a midi controller yet, but that's becoming a priority for me, so I'll have some data there sometime soon.
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@join I must completely remove all my fingers from the pads and stop blowing in order to get it to stop playing the wrong note.
