Messages postés par Peter Ostry

@paul-flute
I don't know Max 4 Live but I use Max for many years now. It is the biggest and most powerful graphical programming environment available for MIDI, Audio and Video. It can do anything from generating and processing MIDI and audio to sound & light installations and video effects. But it has a steep learning curve. You can do simple patches on the first day and there are tutorials available, but it may take a couple of months to get familiar with it. There are always a couple of ways to reach a target.

Max and Logic are a good team, I use them individually and together, often generating/processing MIDI and sound in Max and recording, mixing and adding other elements in Logic.

Sylphyo bench, for example, is a Max application but too old for many of todays computers. You can interface the Sylphyo yourself in Max. Definitely a good, not too difficult and expandable project.

@paul-flute said:

generating different notes and chords from CC messages and midi notes etc. I have a KMI softstep (hardware/software)

This is one domain of Max.

(Btw, the KMI Softstep editor is a Max application, but they messed it up and made it over-complicated. A while ago I had a Softstep and made my own interface in Max, just with the things I needed.)

@join said in Maxforlive device?:

patch parameter via NRPNs

Why NRPN? Isn't a simple SysEx syntax better for most people who want to make their own editors and controller systems? Something like the Waldorf Blofeld has (10 Bytes per parameter, no long strings except for dumps).

I don't have an Anyma Phi yet but a Sylphyo and I think there will also come an "editor language" sooner or later. I find SysEx chunks for parameters better than the message groups of NRPN.

@paul-flute
That is not on the performance screen. It is just a picture detail of the channelstrip, superimposed in the large picture.

If you want lights on the performance screen, add two buttons and map them to
(Channelstrip Name) —> ChordTrigger —> Bypass
Invert their range and they will light synchronously to your plugins. You may add hardware labels on the layout screen to tell them apart.

@paul-flute
Sorry, I don't know anything about playback in Mainstage.

BTW, on stage you can hang the Sylphyo with the neck strap on a microphone stand or something else and don't need a stand for it. I've done that with a WX5 all the time and find it more secure than a bottom stand. Of course you want a nice long hook mounted to the stand. In good ol' days next to cup holder and ashtray, today under the iPad clamp.

I've tried the thumb-rest, but don't like the Sylphyo falling/spinning upside down when I release it. I do not play the "super-high" octave, so I could use the screw above the octave keys.

I took one of those simple crimp connectors that are used to make ground connections in devices, bent it a little, pulled an isolated wire through and soldered a ring. Then I've put some shrink-tube to keep the sling tight. First try, seems to work. The metal ring is small enough for the original screw, the flexible cable applies very little force and I can easily see the display.

It could be much more elegant but for now I call it success :-)

@paul-flute
I cannot comment your general complaints because I do not use Mainstage currently. It is known as pretty stable. Although, in former days it sometimes tended to get unstable in layout and edit mode. But what you describe doesn't sound normal. If you run it in Rosetta, you can try native. This may also change the third-party plugins you can use.

Mapping: Since the Sylphyo can send many CCs, avoid the learn function in Mainstage. Set the interface and numbers manually.

General: It could be that you are using a Mainstage template that does not work properly or does not fit to the M1. Rather make a new empty concert, save it as template and start your tests from scratch.

@paul-flute said in Sylphyo and Mainstage:

I wonder what version of Manistage you were using here.

Mac mini M1
macOS 11.4
Mainstage 3.5.2

@paul-flute
Haven't used Mainstage for a long time but I try to remember.

You want 2 ChordTrigger plugins, let's call them "Plugin 1" and "Plugin 2". You want to activate them alternatively. Both should never be on at the same time. But you want to turn them both off with the same control element on the Sylphyo.

The Sylphyo's "Bottom Edge Slider (CC#13)" looks applicable for this task, because it has a dedicated starting point at the very bottom. So it's not likely to operate it accidently. And this starting point (with a little hysteresis) can be used as a main switch, to bypass both plugins.

You want this function:
Sylphyo slider tapped, but very low: both plugins bypassed (this is your main off-switch).
Sylphyo slider a little higher until value 63: plugin 2 active.
Sylphyo slider over 63: plugin 2 bypassed, plugin 1 active.

Here is a screenshot of the two mappings:

It is quite simple, uses just an inverted range for Plugin 1. The plugin is bypassed from 0-63 and active from 64-127.

If you look at the graph symbol, you see that something was done in the mapping for Plugin 2. Here is the graph, that bypasses Plugin 2 if the slider value is 0-10.

(If the "stepped" view shows you different values, just ignore this Mainstage bug. The graph works.)

Here you have your function:
By default, both plugins are bypassed (set this "saved value" as attribute for both "Bypass" mappings). If you tap the Sylphyo slider at the low end (0-10), you activate your CC-13 but plugin 2 stays bypassed. Plugin 1 is off anyway because it needs a value over 63. Moving your finger higher then 10 activates Plugin 2. At the middle point Plugin 2 gets bypassed and Plugin 1 activated. This way you can switch between two chord settings. If you slide your finger fully down or simply lift your thumb, the Sylphyo slider sends a 0 and both plugins are off.

With the method above you have to keep your thumb on the slider as long as you play chords. I haven't thought about a toggle function yet.

@clint
I know the jitter problem you demonstrate in the audio example. It happens clearly on the lowest breath values. But as I learned with the Respiro Synth, we do not talk about values of 0-3 but rather about those values, where the instrument begins to respond. In a certain Respiro preset the point where the jitter happens (and the main sound comes up) follows the pitch of the note. In the upper octave (C4) it stutters at breath values 0-3. In the C3 octave it stutters around 6-9 and in the C2 octave this happens around 12-15. For physical modeling the moving trigger point is ok, because a lower flute tone needs more air. But the small jitter area right above each trigger point is a technical problem.

Just suppressing the lowest values, like suggested in the NI forum, helps only for sounds that trigger at zero. Not an universal solution. I don't have the technical knowledge to say if high-resolution MIDI would cure this or not. And how many synths support that? Respiro does. Kontakt does not, according to a forum post over there. What surely helps is to play with a volume pedal. Cheating, so to say. Maybe controlling the volume via the Sylphyo's elevation control and a custom volume curve in the synth.

Maybe I will try to feed high-resolution breath streams to various synths just to hear if the jitter problem remains.

—

Oops, we finally hijacked Paul Flute's thread. Sorry.
Should we continue here or start a new thread or could someone split this thread?

Ah, you are correct.
We should rather say,
"If you use breath curves in your computer software, check how
they interact with the breath curve you have set in the Sylphyo."

—

@clint said in Sylphyo and Mainstage:

My Sylphyo is set to Breath => Curve => Log, and

Many of the virtual instruments I use have breath response curves such as this one in Kontakt

Your Kontakt curve looks flat, but when we transform it to the technically correct quadratic format, we see that you almost equalized the Sylphyo's logarithmic curve. Kind of 'Sylphyo pulls down, Kontakt pushes up'. I am not sure, but the average of your Sylphyo- and Kontakt-curves seems to be similar to a straight line. Could be a typical "double corrected" situation.

I can imagine that you get the same playing result if you use linear in the Sylphyo and just make the beginning flatter in Kontakt.

@paul-flute said in Sylphyo and Mainstage:

I have managed to make CC 75 attenuate the sound after I have blown... but not to trigger the sound...

Sorry, I missed this part of the question. We need to talk about the basics.

With the Sylphyo we normally play in MIDI world. We can not trigger a tone just by a CC event. We need a note-on event with note number and velocity value to start the note, and we need a note-off event to end the note. The trick for electronic wind instruments is, to take initial velocity but control the loudness of the tone while it sounds, by a stream of CC messages. Traditionally CC#2 but can be anything else.

As Clint suggested, use a monitoring tool to observe the MIDI stream coming from the Sylphyo. Since you are on a Mac, install Midi Monitor, go to preferences and set the controller format to "decimal numbers". During your monitoring use the various filters to narrow the display to the event types you are interested in.

At very short tones you can easily see that the Sylphyo starts with a breath value, then immediately generates a note-on event with the initial value that is stored in the Sylphyo settings. A stream of CC values follows as long as you blow. When the breath value goes down, a note-off event is generated. Basically you could play similar with a keyboard and a fader or pedal, but not as fluently, intuitive and organic as a good wind controller can do it.

I think this gives you an idea about what you have to do to play a synth you do not know yet:

1. You have to find your initial velocity. For the beginning and for many sounds you can be lazy and set the Sylphyo's velocity a little below maximum. For sensitive sounds you may want to experiment. A quick way in Logic or Mainstage is, to scale the velocity with the MIDI FX plugin "Modifier" before the instrument. Depending on the system you can also look for velocity curves or other scaling options. Setting the velocity in the Sylphyo diffently for particular sounds is the least convenient way and not recommended.

2. You got to find a good-sounding way to control the loudness. Sometimes the channel fader can be enough, we often did this with wind controllers in former days as we had less options. I think the Sylphyo sends CC#11 for breath by default. In Mainstage you have an "Expression" dial on each channel. I am not sure what it really does, but it reacts by default to CC#11 and may be all you need. If not, look deeper into the synth to find a parameter that does what you want. Volume, Output, Expression, Amp, Global or Main are common labels for such parameters. For the dynamics of your breath, don't forget that the Sylphyo itself offers breath curves. If you use curves in your computer software, set the Sylphyo's breath curve to linear. Otherwise you never know who scales what.

@paul-flute said in Sylphyo and Mainstage:

Do you know how to modify a stock sound eg ES2 so it triggers by a controller like CC 75 instead of CC 2?

Clicking on the "MIDI" button near the bottom left corner shows a couple of assignments named Control A-F:

These assignments are used in the modulation matrix in the center area of the ES2. You can either set a modulation matrix source field to match your Ctrl A-F, or set the Ctrl A-F to match a source in the modulation matrix.

For more radical changes or to compose your own sounds you most likely want to set the Ctrl A-F fixed (as your personal standard) to your Sylphyo's CCs and then configure the modulation matrix to your needs.

If you play the ES2 a lot, you rather want to use the second method because the parameter ranges of ES2 presets do seldom fit to your Sylphyo CC ranges. You have to adjust the matrix anyway.

@join
I can wait, just wanted to know.
Thank you very much!

@support_aodyo said in Feature Request: Turning PC out off.:

We will look into adding this feature in the future.

Do you actually consider to (optionally) block PC output from the Sylphyo/Link?

The thing is, that I have to expand my controller and will lose the second MIDI output. If the Sylphyo does not get the PC-block feature, I need to buy a little box that does it. That costs about 130-200 Euro, depending on the model. Only because of those Program Changes ...

@paul-flute

No problem here with Sylphyo and Link (Mac mini M1)

Bench software does not run, I already deleted it.
If I remember right, it is made with Max 7. I don't need bench, but maybe
someone could take the original and upgrade the application to Max 8?

@join

I knew that there are some difficulties with measuring angles in space but I did not know the details. Thank you very much for the explanation and the link to Gimbalpedia. Hopefully you get the quaternion method working, I read the description three times and still don't understand this Pi trick ;-)

Regarding the current version:

Like you, I think the compass behavior at steeper elevation angles cannot easily get re-calculated to a smooth transition between roll and compass. It depends where you start to blow. And this is different from aircrafts and space ships, which need absolute information about their position while the Sylphyo is most times played in a relative mode. Maybe this will change with quaternions, but that is another story.

I observed all MIDI data from the Sylphyo in Max, tried many settings and decided to block compass data if the elevation parameter is at zero. This does not save every situation, but most. I am comfortable with this restriction. Of course I lose the roll=compass gesture with the vertical Sylphyo but well, not everything must get translated to sound. If I play without a computer, I either avoid steep angles or don't use compass.

Regarding this "vertical yaw" with a steeply held Sylphyo that ijfritz found and that you see as a side effect: I like that. And now I understand that is not an additional parameter. It just comes as roll and actually this is good. I missed roll in steep positions, don't know why I never tried to swing the instrument left/right. Nice bug, please don't fix it, rather call it a feature.

@ijfritz

Regarding your question: As far as I know, the "yaw" parameter is not described in the manual, nor in a tutorial.

—

I am also rather new to the Sylphyo and just learned from you about this additional parameter which is not available (yet?) as separate data. If someone else programmed the sensor part of the Sylphyo system, Aodyo support may also not know about "yaw", that only works around the vertical position and seems to be masked as "roll".

I am pretty sure that we could get "yaw" as a separate parameter, similar to "roll". And if we set yaw and roll to the same CC, the additional data would not bother anyone who does not want to use them separately.

But as I mentioned, yaw collides with the beta compass mode. This "compass" is problematic at the moment. It works well in the usual playing position, but when you tilt the Sylphyo down, "roll" gets reduced as expected and "compass" goes haywire. It jumps erratically. If you start blowing in the vertically down position, the "roll" gesture works as "compass", which seems logical. But when you tilt the Sylphyo upwards, "compass" goes haywire again. There should be a smooth transition and hopefully Aodyo is working on it.

It could also be, that the programmers are well aware about the compass problem and want to solve this first, before they think about a separate yaw paramter, which introduces a very similar problem. Wouldn't a horizontal yaw be, what they call compass? They could replace "compass" by the universal "yaw". But then, what about rolling in the vertical position? We would need compass again. Or smooth transitions from one parameter to the other. Well, that is Aodyo's business and as long as they don't ask us we just discuss for personal amusement :-)

However, I am happy with the Sylphyo as it is and appreciate when the Aodyo people take their time to improve the system in a reliable way.

@ijfritz

I think what you mean is called "yaw" in aviation ("gieren" in German). A rotation around the vertical airplane axis from the view of the pilot.

I like this behavior of the Sylphyo and I believe that it was implemented on purpose as it is.

Due to the magnetic field sensor, a "roll" gesture started in a horizontal Sylphyo position gets less effective, the more you angle the instrument downwards. Near the final vertical position no more rolling is measurable. This can be musically useful, but it also means, that starting in a steep downwards position, which can make sense in a visual performance, would not have any roll possibility unless you move the Sylphyo up. I assume that Aodyo implemented the "yaw" movement as a "second roll". While the Sylphyo is held steeply downwards, you can yaw/(roll) it with a pendulum motion. Futher up you can move on to the normal roll gesture.

I see this implementation as simplification for new users and for players who prefer just a few technical possibilities over loads of features.

But personally I think that yaw should be an independent parameter. We can always set yaw and roll to the same controller number and this could even be the default setting (like it is now). It is a good idea to set defaults for easiest playing, but when we start to tweak, all motions should be usable in any way we want.

Delicate: In a more horizontal position, "yaw" collides with the "compass" parameter. Tricky stuff ...

I think that the movement of the Sylphyo is not perfectly worked out yet, but since it also depends on features still in beta state, I would prefer to discuss this in a separate thread.

@frank
With the right software you won't have a serious problem. I have small problems only because I want my setup to work with and without a computer. The latter has less possibilities.

I think there has to be a balance between Sylphyo as a standalone instrument and Sylphyo as a MIDI controller. Both implementations are very good.

I use the distinct sounds of the Sylphyo in parallel with other sounds via MIDI. I can live with the missing MIDI thru. Just would like to get rid of this program change from the Link.

—

Our secondary discussion:

My description was misleading. I don't play through many speakers yet. That's a future plan. I meant a hexaphonic guitar pickup with 6 outputs. Each string in a different audio channel. Overall output is stereo for now.

You plan to play through 24 speakers or more? That's quite a mouthful :-) Do you make a dome or a circle?

@frank
How can I set the Link to a certain MIDI channel?
So far I've seen it is always omni.

—

Regarding loud guitarists: I can play loud but I am rather the quiet guy. Originally coming from classical and jazz guitar I currently make experiments with sound collages, 6-channel audio and MIDI guitar.

@frank
Yes I do what you suggest. MIDI for sound selection comes from the Gordius. I want to step once on the foot controller and have a complete sound set: Sylphyo via Link, hardware synth and a couple of effect boxes. About the same as a guitarist does with a MIDI rack (indeed I am a guitarist with a MIDI rack :-)

I found two methods:

1. One MIDI line exclusively for the Link and one line for everything else. The Gordius controller sends the data first to the Link and then to others. If I want to change only Sylphyo sounds on the fly, I need to switch channels before, as Maxence suggested. But this happens very seldom if ever.

2. Another method is to disconnect the Link from the controller, change Sylphyo sounds on the Sylphyo only and afterwards step (again) on the controller to set the synth to the right program number again.

At the moment I tend to method 2) because I think that I will use just a handful of favorite Sylphyo sounds. And I spare me the second MIDI line.

@support_aodyo
Instead of optionally blocking outgoing program changes in the Sylphyo, I can also imagine another method if that is easier to implement: optionally setting another MIDI channel for outgoing program changes. Both methods can decouple Sylphyo program from synth program in hardware-only setups.

@clint
I am not convinced of the fan. Doesn't it dry out the watery component of the liquid but leave the ingrediences that promote the growth of mushrooms? I can imagine that the remaining dry germs are happy when they get new colleagues and water during the next playing time and the population may grow quickly. Maybe it is better to let the liquid drip off, probably soaking it up with some removable kitchen-pad-like material and for longer breaks just clean the tube with a usual cleaning cloth.

I like your idea of the 90° turn to lock the Sylphyo in place. With the right dimensions of the "clamp" you may not even need the 5° backwards tilt.

Actually you inspire me to buy a 3D printer too :-)

In the sound menu of the Sylphyo, after the "regular" sounds, the list repeats itself with names with a ° (degree) sign in front.

Is there something we should know about these duplicates or do we just ignore them?

@clint
So far I've seen this is not possible with the Sylphyo alone. Needs MIDI processing.

The elevation angle tells how much the Sylhpyo's bell is lower than the mouthpiece. Horizontal is 0° and only there you get 127. Fully down is 90°. When you have the elevation setting at 35° and start playing fully down, nothing happens until you reach 35°. From that point you get 1-127 until you reach the horizontal position (0°).

I would prefer from-to degree settings, where we can set an arbitrary range instead of dealing with given endpoints. But as a newcomer I don't dare to send two feature requests on the same day ;-)

I do not use Kontakt but this is sophisticated software. It should have something like input curves or other ways to scale input data.

If Kontakt cannot do it, maybe your DAW can. Which DAW do you use?

@Clint
The bank setting let's you select a sound bank number (for synths who require that) but afterwards it also sends the Program Change.

@support_aodyo
I see what you mean and it is somehow similar to what I do. Below is a draft of my smallest computerless setup (not tested yet).

The controller has 2 MIDI outlets that can be filtered by channel. For each sound change I send first the Sylphyo PC (which sets the 'wrong' Blofeld program) and after a short delay I send the Blofeld PC I want. The Gordius can do this automatically. This way I get one dedicated sound combination with a single footstep.

Manipulating the Sylphyo settings will still 'unset' the Blofeld program but I don't see a way to avoid this as long as the Sylphyo sends Program Changes. I could add a hardware MIDI filter after the Sylphyo but this adds another box and may cost additional 100 Euro or more.

@support_aodyo
Checked again and disabled the Sylphyo's movement CCs. Really cannot tell what is going on. Stuck notes, changing/losing the Sylphyo's internal sound (I mix with the Link's stereo input) and weird behavior overall. Turned everything off and on in different order – no change. Turned everything off, went back to direct MIDI connection and it worked fine.

Never mind. I believe some devilish ghost in a parallel universe prevents me from using USB hosts. A Keith McMillen host did not work here. A Kenton USB host didn't. Why should the Link do. I blame the ghost ;-)

MIDI over DIN works well, I will use this.

A shy feature request:
Could you please think about an option to block outgoing Program Changes in the Sylphyo?

The Sylphyo outputs PC at various occasions and often switches the other synth to some program it should not be. In my case I want to change the sound of both independently. Of course in other setups you want the programs strictly linked. Therefore the setting must be optional.

Blofeld Desktop.
It accepts anything. Notes, Pitch Bend, Program Change, most Control
Changes, Channel Pressure, Poly Pressure, SysEx and MIDI Clock.

@support_aodyo Yes, I think I was too early with narrow thumb space. It takes a while to handle that.

Is it possible to configure the Link's MIDI output as Out/Thru?

Would be fine for hardware synths, when the Link could merge incoming data with Sylphyo data at the output.

Two Sylphyo questions.

——————————
Menu page "Movement", last setting: "Always on"
I wanted to use "Always on" for Roll and Compass control (MIDI out). But the function only works when the "Absolute" setting is ON. Is this intentional? The manual doesn't mention a dependency.
——————————
Main menu page, Wireless: "LED"
What is the "LED" setting supposed to do? The light on the Link box does not change.
——————————

I see that Compass control is in beta stage, so the following bug may already be known:

Rolling my Sylphyo more than about 45° to the side makes the compass (!) control jump to the min or max value, depending on the roll direction. Rolling to the right side kicks the Compass value to the lowest position and vice versa. I can reliably reproduce this by monitoring the MIDI data in Max.

It happens
... in a sensor-friendly playing position (Sylphyo horizontally)
... in all Roll modes (standard, bidirectional, absolute)
... with all Roll degree settings (5°–90°)

We can work around the problem by avoiding large degree values and/or extreme roll movements. But since one parameter (roll) triggers another parameter (compass) so hard, I thought you may want to know about it.

@david-lazzi Thanks, I know this video and already managed to use key-pitchbend according to Pedro's suggestions.

Sylphyo Bench does not run well on my machine but I have my own Max interface for optical feedback. There I see that the thumb-rolling bend does not always work initially.

But I think you are right, it should get better over time when I learn to set my fingers more accurately. I am not used to touch buttons yet.

I seem to have a problem with thumb-rolling pitch bend. It should bend down (standard setting) but when I start to play, it often refuses to bend. I have to tap or slide a little on the strip and eventually the bend starts working and then it continues to work. Did not find a reliable method yet.

Is there a common gesture you use to "initialize" pitch bend before you play or do I just need practice to place my thumb more exactly when I pick up the Sylphyo?

Does anyone here use the Sylphyo Link as an USB Host? I tried with my only USB synth, a Blofeld, and that does not work. Did not check the MIDI data, but sounds weird and notes get quickly stuck. Is it device dependent?

Actually I have bad experience with USB hosts of this kind. I think I am better off to forget about this possibility and rather stick to DIN MIDI which works well. Right?

@support_aodyo
Regarding factory reset: I do that quite often because I am working on a Max interface for the Sylphyo to control various synths with everything the Sylphyo offers.

Regarding 1.4.8 upgrade: Did it again, behavior remains unchanged. Key reaction 0 requires octave reaction 0.

@support_aodyo
Ha!
If key reaction time is 0 ms, then octave key reaction time must also be 0 ms. Feels like a bug, right?

For me it is ok, I am new to the Sylphyo and currently see no reason to make the reaction slower than instantly.

To your other question:
I am on the latest 1.4.8 version, I think. Upgraded yesterday and the 'Diagnostic' functions says v1.4.8

@support_aodyo No plug, the Sylphyo exit is open. I lowered capture delay to 10, 5 and 0 ms and the breath range to the default 600. No success.

New observation: My dynamic velocity works for legato but not for single notes. When I play a series of single notes with equal force, the velocity values are rather random.

After a factory reset – which parameters do I have to change to make dynamic velocity working on single notes? From this point I should be able to figure out what to do and what not.

(Firmware 1.4.8 on Link and Sylphyo)
When I set the key reaction time to 0 ms, my Sylphyo doesn't like me anymore. No legato playing possible and it misses many key changes. From 1 ms on it behaves normally.

Not that I would need 0 ms, just thought that it should be a valid setting.

(Firmware 1.4.8 on Link and Sylphyo)
Dynamic velocity does not work properly here. Seldom it follows breath. See the readout of Midi Monitor below, where I played 4 times from very soft to as hard as I can. Instead of expected velocity from almost 0 up to 127 I got 1, 19, 18, 4.

16:02:42.499	From Sylphyo Link	Note On	1	G3	1
16:02:42.625	From Sylphyo Link	Note Off	1	G3	0
16:02:43.777	From Sylphyo Link	Note On	1	G3	19
16:02:43.885	From Sylphyo Link	Note Off	1	G3	0
16:02:45.116	From Sylphyo Link	Note On	1	G3	18
16:02:45.379	From Sylphyo Link	Note Off	1	G3	0
16:02:46.713	From Sylphyo Link	Note On	1	G3	4
16:02:47.066	From Sylphyo Link	Note Off	1	G3	0

Maybe it depends on some settings?
Breath – Range 5-2000, Curve Log, Filtering OFF.
Keys – Reaction time 10 ms, More sensitive ON.
Velocity – Dynamic, Capture delay 20 ms, Max. velocity 127.