flute like Vibrato including pitch
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Flute players (like me) play expressive vibrato with their air pressure/amount.
In real flute thae effects:
A the volume
B the pitch
C colour
When programming for the anima phy i use the breath control to pitch change which makes "my" sounds so much more lifely than the presets in the sylphio.On my sylphio the sounds are all double...
would it be possible to do one set with the BC to pitch sensitivity?or to put in the software a possibility to switch on this correlation and the amount od pitch change.
in a recorder this pitch change in vibrato can go up to 1/2 note
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The Sylphyo’s built-in "Shake Vibrato" does not do what you want? For me it’s fine and one of the main advantages of this instrument. You may consult the Sylphyo manual.
In the settings you have three parameters:
Range = amount of pitch bend
Sensitivity = how sensitive to your movement
Threshold = at which shaking force the vibrato starts to work—
@wx-is-dead said in flute like Vibrato including pitch:
On my sylphio the sounds are all double...
They show all available memory locations and because half of them are empty, they have duplicated the existing presets there.
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@Peter-Ostry yep off course the shake vibrato is effecting pitch......
BUT
flutists have their "treined" expression in the airstream. And the airstream vibrato on the preset sounds is really not expressive (to flutists) because the pitch componente is missing. -
@wx-is-dead said in flute like Vibrato including pitch:
flutists have their "treined" expression in the airstream.
But this is not a flute. It's a different instrument that should be learnt and treated as such. If you force it towards perfect simulation, you take away its strengths and end up with neither the perfect flute nor the perfect synth.
@wx-is-dead said in flute like Vibrato including pitch:
And the airstream vibrato on the preset sounds is really not expressive (to flutists) because the pitch componente is missing.
I agree with you on that. These are just presets. We would like to make and save our own, including the desired vibrato setting. But the Sylphyo doesn't give us this option.
Setting several parameters after each sound change is unacceptable. That's why I hardly ever play the internal sounds, but mostly software instruments. Would prefer hardware, but I only have two small synths and they don’t perform with the Sylphyo as good as I hoped.
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@Peter-Ostry hey I hear you. yes I mainly play the phy and the respiro (for that reason). instruments where I can get the expressiveness i search. but as it is a very simple controle connection (which is also in the phy in the FIRST ROW of the editor) i hoped to get people who sit in the preset sounds to read my comment.
there are some selected controle connections selectable in the sylphio. like pad to pitch. and off course shake on/off etc
because let's be honest all external synties triggered by sylphio are way too slow to be played rhymically. i hoped to get these preset sounds more lifely
and yes i'm a professional flute player. my airstream expression is trained in 100 000s of hours..
and lets be honest the airstream expression is what makes a wind player a wind player.
i'm courious if there will be someone prctising shaking vibrato in the slurr of 2 notes.... look at workshops where nicolet is explaining that study for flute and breath vibrato....
an exercise every professional is spending multiple hours per week -
@Peter-Ostry oh and i forgot: this advice to study the sylphio as it is and not to fantasize about its possibilities is a way of looking at the world that does not fit to me. i'm always in search of maximal expression. and especially using technical possibilities to program against repetition of same acoustic events
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Yes, I'm talking about the same wishes. Except that I don't think I can turn the Sylphyo into a perfect flute. Your vibrato/slur example is spot on, there are certain things a device like this can't do. But the Sylphyo is the only wind controller that is able to follow your detailed playing to some extent. Compared to the Sylphyo, a Yamaha WX or Akai EVI sound almost like keyboards.
The Sylphyo is a very good controller and your playing technique paired with sensitive use of the motion sensors for tone colour, texture, volume etc. lets you get sounds that no one else can do.
That's what I mean by utilising the technology. Recognising what the instrument is good at and taking that to new levels in a playful way. Not a replacement, but an enrichment.
For the absolutely authentic flute sounds, there are real flutes and microphones :-)
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@Peter-Ostry ha peter maybe i'm not clear. the sylphio can translate flutists playtechnique (vibrato) to expressive sound / pitch message. listen to:
https://soundcloud.com/tilo-baum/19-08-23-vcv-respiro-2
there I used the possibility in "respiro" to translate breath control to pitch variation (+/- even 0.4 steps at 0 respectively 127)but respiro reacts so slow on the other hand the preset sounds are so much faster.
but I really regret that there is preset vibrato in a lot of the sounds and that the air vibrato can't effect any pitch...
and off cours I do not wanna recreate a flute..
I wanna amplify the expression possibility of sylphio. and I'm shur I could If I had contact with devellopers -
Ah, now I understand you, the sound example was good.
As for the Sylphyo developer, that will probably take some time. We've been waiting here for a year or more and it looks like nothing will happen until the Omega synth is on sale.
But about the Respiro. If the pitch response there is too slow for you, can't you help yourself with the curves so that the pitch responds faster?
Something like that:
Or with a platform in the middle:
The disadvantage of such curves is that they react differently in the outer areas than at the intersection. If this suits you, it could bring an improvement.
Otherwise, talk to imoxplus, maybe he has another idea for a faster response.
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@Peter-Ostry sorry didn't write clearly. the biggest weak point of the sylphio is that sound speed is too slow,....
especially if not using the preset sounds... they react faster. the respiro is slow in attack reaction (there the "speed" is super important some ms already kill the funk/the timing)the pitch reaction with some "delay"... really no problem to me.
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But you said, that the pitch reaction is too slow, didn’t you? However, what you are complaining about now is a different problem, actually a bunch of technical issues.
If you want to dive deeper, you may want to look at the threads in this forum linked below. They deal with latency of breath events but for most statements and findings you can exchange "Breath" with "Pitchbend". They are comparable because both are events triggered by human action and sent down their electronical path through various processors, beginning with the internal Sylphyo settings.
Latency Testing (Nov 2021)
How Breath Rate affects Latency (Nov 2021)
Direct vs Link Latency (Jan 2022)
Latency of On-board Sounds (May 2022)This can help you to find out what you can expect from the Sylphyo, which improvements can be made through settings and sound setup and also what you have no control over because it is system-related.
One thread ends with a comment by Rudy Verpaele (imoxplus, Respiro). He talks about note change, but we learn that reaction time is not just milliseconds. Technical and musical aspects play a fundamental role.
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If I understand correctly, what you @wx-is-dead are asking is to have a setting on the Sylphyo so that breath impacts pitch-bend as well.
Would it be OK to have a single setting, or does it need to be customized for each sound?
If a single setting is OK, what settings would you need to make it work? I'm not really sure what would be needed: starting from a lower pitch up to the exact played note some breath intensity but stopping at that, or having the possibility to go higher if blowing past some point? Is it important to set the curve?
To design something that could work for you we would need the clearest and most precise description of the behavior you want you could possibly write. Don't hesitate to show videos, diagrams, and to write in Dutch and translate in English using ChatGPT or DeepL if it's easier for you, as long as it helps you be as clear and precise as possible.@Peter-Ostry "Setting several parameters after each sound change is unacceptable. That's why I hardly ever play the internal sounds, but mostly software instruments." Do you mean that the internal sounds don't remember slider positions?
R&D Engineer at Aodyo / Ingénieur R&D chez Aodyo
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@join said in flute like Vibrato including pitch:
@Peter-Ostry "Setting several parameters after each sound change is unacceptable. That's why I hardly ever play the internal sounds, but mostly software instruments."
Do you mean that the internal sounds don't remember slider positions?No, I meant that more generally. If someone wants or needs different Sylphyo settings for different internal sounds, they won't be happy without preset management. Nobody wants to go to the menu hierarchy after a sound change and copy the respective settings from a piece of paper.
At least that's the case for me, I only use a few internal sounds that I like with my basic settings. I do everything else with external synths where I can save presets.
But I don't know if I'm a typical user. For me, the Sylphyo is more of a specialised controller than an instrument on its own.
